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Episode 528 with Andrew Hurteau
Introduction
We frequently talk about executive presence and executive communication. It’s an art more than a skill. And my guest today is going to help us really peel that onion. His name is Andrew Hurteau. Andrew, welcome to the show.
Thank you. Doug, how are you doing today?
I’m doing great. Great. And it’s so glad to have you on board here because this is an important topic and I’ve got 2 or 3 bullets I want to be sure we hit on today, largely spawned from my own coaching practice, the common discussions I have with clients.
But but first, let me let you give us and kind of an overview of your sweet spot. What what are you about and what do you do for folks?
Meet the Guest: Three Ways Andrew Helps Leaders Communicate
My primary job, the thing I get called upon to do, more often than not is, Well, basically, I do three things. Okay. The first thing that I do is I help people and organizations prepare for large events.
Event Preparation
So if you have a conference where you’re going to have a keynote speaker, I help keynote speakers prepare their content, figure out what they’re going to say, and then make sure that when they get on that stage and they say it, the best possible version of them shows up. So that’s the primary. That’s the first not the primary thing, but that’s the first thing event preparation.
Team Workshops
And then the second thing is inside of a lot of organizations that I work with, leaders in those organizations, they recognize that their teams could also use themselves a communications upgrade.
A lot of people, you know, I find that a lot of people make it into their 30s and 40s without ever having someone provide them coaching. On how do you get in front of a room full of people and land a message in a way that’s going to create clarity and impact. So we will go in and we will work with and we will do workshops for entire teams of people to help get them to the next level in their communication skills.
One-on-One Executive Coaching
And then the last thing I do is I do one on one coaching with leaders and leaders and executives to help them address the things that they’re addressing in order to make sure that they are that they’re able to show up as the leader they want to be.
We believe 100% that for leaders and for leadership, communication is quite literally like communication is leadership in action. It is the thing that leaders do, and that is primarily their responsibility inside of an organization, right?
Key Discussion Point 1: Clarity Is the Goal
Yeah, and I totally agree with that. And to even take it one step further, you you did whisper my magic word clarity. Yeah. You know, it’s one thing to put a lot of volume out there and a lot of content in your messaging as a leader. But the real question is, is it landing with clarity?
Do good people that work for you now know what good work is going to be, so that they have a direction to go and and they can eliminate any of their own fear about doing something wrong because they’re confused.
And if you’ve got clarity for them, they’re going to march there. They’re going to go there, they’re going to help get you there.
The Three Pieces of a Clear Message
And that’s and that’s there’s there’s two pieces to that I feel, Doug. The first is that you have to make sure that that well, it’s three pieces. I’m a big fan of threes. But it is it is three pieces. The first is you have to put that message together in a way in the first place where the message is clear.
The second thing is, you know, you can take a very clear message and deliver it with complete lack of clarity. So there’s there’s a delivery aspect to it as well, where you have to land that message and make sure that the way you deliver it is clear.
And the last piece, the thing that you said a moment ago, is, is it landing? Well, the thing is, is if you don’t have engagement with your audience, if you’re not paying attention to and attending to the people that you’re delivering the audience to you, the message to you will never know if it’s landing or not.
And so making sure that engagement is job one for leaders or frankly, anybody in an organization who’s communicating something important.
Key Discussion Point 2: The Patchwork Quilt Problem
It’s such a challenge for that, that individual that’s climbing the ladder in their career journey, that doesn’t get that coaching and assistance early on in guidance. They’re often trying to shape an idea or an approach by osmosis. They watch people around them.
They take a piece here and a piece there, and it becomes kind of a really clunky and, frankly, somewhat ugly patchwork quilt. And if they haven’t been able to connect methods and ideas that really resonate for them internally, you know, like like the introverted personality is not going to be the cheerleader on the podium.
You know, that that that’s going to be a disconnect if they try it and that’s okay. If you can find that authenticity, that’s the that’s a real trick.
Why Imitation Doesn’t Work
Well, that is a huge trick because, you know, as you say, there are people that don’t have a process in place. They don’t have a process in place, and no one has ever coached them to have a process.
So what you wind up doing, like we all do, is we we all very much learn by observation. And so what we do is we watch people who are who are quite good at this. And what we do if we don’t have a process is we just try to look and sound like them.
And the fact of the matter is, is you can’t build a process like that. You can’t build a process trying to do what you have seen someone else do, or say something in a way that you’ve heard someone else say it. First off, it’s not authentic, and secondly, it’s not what you’re doing when you do that is you’re 100% self conscious.
In this moment, now that I’m in front of an audience, in this moment, do I sound like the person I want to sound like? Do I look like the person I want to look like? When in reality, what you should be paying attention to is your audience and whether or not they’re getting it right.
Key Discussion Point 3: Building Your Personal Process
So let’s talk about that process.
I to be honest, I’ve never quite heard it frame that way. Tell us more.
More specifically how like a process.
Process how you build a personal process for that presence and delivery?
Authority and Authenticity
I think one of the things that’s most important, that I spent an enormous amount of time talking to people about, and, and it comes from, well, frankly, on some level it comes from what people are really concerned about when they get in front of audiences.
The first thing is they want to make sure they sound like they know what they’re talking about. And when they do that, they want to sound like themselves. So they want to make sure that they bring some level of authority and knowing what they’re talking about. And they also want to bring some level of authenticity.
Now the authority oddly enough, most people that I work with, they don’t have an issue with that. Most people, by the time they get asked to share with other people what they know, they know what they know so they’re capable of bringing.
That doesn’t mean they’re not worried about it, but mostly they’re capable of bringing that. The issue that most people have is authenticity, and it really is not because they’re trying to be somebody else or trying to do something else. It’s really because the approach that they take to get in front of an audience gets in their way.
We Write Differently Than We Speak
What do I mean by that? Most of us and most of the people that I’ve worked with. Most of the people that I work with have an enormous amount of education behind them. They’ve spent their entire lives demonstrating what they know to other people.
And in our education process, people usually get to like their mid-twenties. And every time they are asked to demonstrate what they know, invariably they write it. They write papers, they write examinations, they write things out so people can evaluate what they know. They write things out so they can inspire people and move people. We send emails, we do all of these things.
And the challenge there is that when people find out that they have this big presentation coming up, the first thing most of my clients do is they go right to their device, they go right to their device, they go right to their laptop or their iPad or whatever, and they start writing for themselves.
And there’s a massive disconnect between how you write and how you speak. The way we speak to people doesn’t sound like the way we write to people, and we’ve spent our entire lives building our ability to write well, to create well crafted sentences.
Well, those well crafted sentences that have a lot of subordinate clauses and a lot of witches and wiles and all of these things, those things literally don’t believe, don’t belong, live in front of an audience.
So the first part of the process, the first part of the process is about once you as you’re developing your content, make sure that you develop, develop it in a way so that it’s designed to be spoken and not to be read. So that’s thing one.
That’s a that’s an important point. And I, I couldn’t agree with you more on the idea of a highly educated individuals. And you know, you We’ve all seen it. We’ve met people that are. Are so book smart. They’re no earthly good. You know they’re there. They’ve got so much in their head.
They want to be able to share, but they’ve not mastered that ability to share it in a way that provides that clarity and connection.
Take Your Dog for a Walk
Yes, yes. And then the other part of the process that also I find people frequently don’t have a process for that. They haven’t really determined the best way to do it for themselves.
You know, once you’ve. Once you’ve developed that content and again, you develop it in a way where you’re where it’s designed to be spoken and not read. Which, by the way, one of the ways you can do that is don’t go straight to your devices. Start typing.
Take your dog for a walk and bring your phone and record how you would say your ideas out loud. So that then when you return back to your device, you can harvest what you said and it will sound more like the way you would say it, rather than the way you would write it.
Okay. Now, once you’ve got that put together, the other piece that a lot of people don’t, don’t get a lot of help with until they do is having a rehearsal and a practice process that works for them.
Key Discussion Point 4: Rehearsal Is Familiarization, Not Memorization
Most people think that if you have, I don’t I don’t want to say most people, but I’m just going to say a lot of people that I work with, they think two things that very much get in their way. Number one, that rehearsal is memorization, which it is not. Rehearsal is not about memorization. Rehearsal is about familiarization.
I don’t recommend to anybody that you that you memorize a script, because the only thing you want less than sounding like you’re reading from a script in front of an audience, is sounding like you’re reciting something you memorized, and the audience is barely even there for you. So rehearsal is not memorization, it is familiarization.
The 15-Minute Rehearsal
And the second thing is that a lot of people think, because, you know, everybody that I work with is busy. Everybody has day jobs beyond their communication practice and getting in front of an audience of people so they don’t have time.
But they think that if they have to rehearse, I have to set aside half an hour to do this rehearsal in order to in order to say the thing out loud.
And the fact of the matter is, you really don’t. There’s at some point you’re going to want to run your entire your entire presentation or your entire whatever it is, you’re going to want to run it.
But you can have a perfectly a perfectly successful rehearsal in 15 minutes, because the most important part of any presentation you’re ever going to give is the first 3 to 5 minutes, because that is when you create that connection between you and your audience.
So if that’s the most important part, rehearse that part, get as familiar as you can be so that you’re not worried about the notes that are written in front of you. You’re worried about your audience, you’re connecting with your audience, and you are engaging with them, and you can rehearse that in 3 to 5 minutes.
And then the other thing you do is you record it. So you rehearse the 3 to 5 minutes of your opening. You also rehearse the 3 to 5 minutes of your closing, because that’s the last thing they’re going to hear you say.
And you can wrap up everything you talked about. So it’s 3 to 5 minutes, 3 to 5 minutes. And then you go back and you watch it. That is a 15 minute completely productive rehearsal.
And you know, when I tell people that it’s kind of a revelation because then they realize, wait a minute, I can have a fully productive rehearsal in 15 minutes. Yeah.
Get on Your Feet and Get Feedback
And then the last thing, Doug, if you don’t mind, the last thing about rehearsal is that as you get as you get close to whatever engagement it is, get on your feet. Obviously, say it out loud as much as you possibly can. And when possible, get people you trust in the room with you to give you feedback.
Because in my estimation, there is no bigger confidence booster than having people you know and trust look, you square in the eye and say, you know what? Doug? This works. You’re going to kill this. This is great. I love the way you’ve put this together.
And then for the things that you need to work on, they’re honest with you. And, you know, they’ll be honest with you.
Behind the Scenes: Doug’s Dog-Walk Rehearsals
Yeah. Well, even as you were saying all that, I was thinking about some of my own experience in public speaking and, you know, talking about walking the dog. You know, once I had that framework in mind of where I want to go practicing the opening and practicing the clothes and all that, I typically do that when I’m walking my dog.
I just run it, you know, I and I speak it out loud, so I’m sure my neighbors think I’m nuts. You know, I’m talking to the dog about business matters and you know it. you know, they they wonder.
The thing is, you do have to say it out loud. You have to say it out loud because. Because if you don’t, if you’re just running it in your head, you know, there’s your brain is going to write checks that your mouth can’t cash.
You know, there will be connections and synapses that connect ideas in your brain. And if you don’t say them out loud, sometimes those synapses don’t show up when you’re speaking the way they do when you’re thinking about stuff.
Key Discussion Point 5: Influence Without Authority
Right. Absolutely. Well, I know for the sake of time, you’ve got a couple of other nuggets in your your bio that you shared with me that I want to talk about. And. Sure.
And, and it’s, it’s not just the public speaking piece, but it’s that idea of influencing inside your world, you know, whether you are in a role where you need to influence with authority or without authority. Yeah. And probably the key one is that influence without authority.
let’s talk about that subject for just a minute. You know what? What have you seen out there in the world with struggles people have getting into roles where they know the expectation is they’re supposed to be shaping strategy, guiding projects and things, but they don’t have that command authority to direct people to act.
Influence Is Built on Trust
I think, I think I’ve touched on one of the things, the major thing that I spend most of my time working on is that sense of authenticity. I think, you know, if you were going to have influence in my experience, influence, I mean, it’s based on many things.
But the thing that I really think it’s based on most is trust is if you’re going to have influence over people, they need to trust you, they need to trust your motives, and they need to trust that what you are saying in the moment is honest and true.
And the fact of the matter is, if you show up in front of a roomful of people, if I showed up, if I showed up in front of you, Doug, with a script in front of me and with the questions that you gave me ahead of time, just having written out answers to it, I would probably, maybe sound like I got all the words right, but your audience wouldn’t pay any attention to me at all.
Hopefully they’re paying attention to me now, but if I did what I just described to you, they wouldn’t pay attention to me because I would sound canned and it would sound like the truth, which is my script would be more important than them. And that’s not what you want in front of an audience.
And so what you need to do is you need to make sure that regardless of how you’ve put together your material and yes, if you’re doing a 35, 40 minute presentation, you have to have notes. Nobody’s expecting you to not have notes.
But what you need to do is make sure that once you get into the engagement, you are bringing your best self and your most authentic self. And then the other thing because because that will that will build, that will begin the building of trust with your audiences. Yeah.
Communication Is Never One and Done
And then the second thing is I also I also recognize that communication, communication of new ideas, communication of new new initiatives, new processes Putting together those communications is challenging, and I think what we have to recognize and what I see a lot is that as you’re putting together, as you’re putting together a community, any kind of communication that the preparation of that, the putting together the content, it is definitely not under any circumstances, a one and done.
The fact of the matter is, is that there are infinite numbers of engagements that you will find yourself in. All of them are at least a little bit different because no two audiences are exactly the same. And people who don’t. Leaders who don’t adjust for your audience.
the example that I use a lot of the time is simply that, you know, if you’re an engineer and you’re talking to engineers and you’re trying to convince them that there’s a new process or an initiative that you’re trying to put in place, if you’re talking to engineers, you put together data and information and metrics and all of that stuff that’s going to appeal to to engineers.
And you’re probably going to get pretty deep in the weeds in terms of explaining what you need them to understand. The fact of the matter is that is not and trying to communicate the same message around, we need this new initiative or process for the executive leadership team. That is a different communication, it’s a different audience, and you’re going to approach it a different way.
And I think truly embracing the novelty of each audience is something that challenges a lot of people that I work with.
Key Discussion Point 6: Bottom Line First (and Don’t Back Up the Dump Truck)
It really does. And what I hear my clients expressing is that they’re struggling, getting out of their own head. You know, they’re there. They play this game of, if I say this, then this is going to happen. And if I do that, that’s going to happen.
And it’s like, you don’t know that. You don’t know that. So why are you wasting time worrying about that? You know, focus on that purpose of clarity. What is your best effort at sharing the message? You’ve got to be as clear as possible.
And please correct me if you disagree, but what I advise a lot of my clients to do, especially those that are in kind of upper middle management, trying to talk to those executive leadership teams, I tell them, present the bottom line first. That’s what those guys want to know.
You know, what are we here for? What are we talking about? And then they’re going to solve backwards if they’ve got questions or need more data.
They’re going to they’re going to tell you what they’re concerned about. Excuse me. But too often these more junior people show up in those meetings. And somewhere subconsciously, they want to impress by what they what they know.
And so I call it backing up the dump truck. You know, they when they’re given the mic, it’s like you hear the bell, you know, the trucks backing up and they start dumping out all this detail to, to create this long, winding journey to get to the bottom line. And the executives are glazed over or they’re ready for the next meeting.
From 8.5 Hours to 45 Minutes
Well, the very first, very first jobs I had when I switched over from, you know, my previous life, I was a I was I was a professional actor and I was an acting teacher as well. And I made a shift into doing what I do now.
And one of my very, first, very first engagements was working with a group of research analysts who had to present at a conference. They were doing breakout sessions for a conference, and they all had 45 minutes at 45 minute breakout sessions.
Now, every one of those, every one of those research analysts had about an 8.5 hour presentation they could have given. And what it really comes down to is like, how do you turn? How do you turn that 8.5 hour presentation into a 45 minute presentation?
You do exactly what you’re talking about, which is you don’t focus on what you have to say. You focus on what they need to hear. Why are they in the room? What did they show up for? And going back to what you were saying a minute ago, Doug, I agree with you 100%. You lead with your lead.
Context Before the Lead
Now, that said that said, understanding this audience. Okay. Let me give you an example. All right. Let’s just say you’re in a you do you do have to present to your leadership team. All right. And you got you’re in a conference room. There’s ten people there. All right.
Half the people in the room. Half the people in the room are privy to this project, are privy to this project that you’re working on, are privy to the success that you’ve had and areas of improvement and things.
You have this, this massive project that you’re working on, and you have to report in on it. All right. Half the leaders in the room understand it. So what that half of people, what they want is they want the top line, As you say, they want to know how it’s going.
They want to know this entire report over the next 20 minutes is going to be based upon this idea. And I’m going to tell you where we are based upon this, and I’m going to support it in very clear ways. That’s the half of the people that know what you’re doing.
If the other half of the people, for instance, include the CEO and they have no idea what this project is, before you get to that top line about how you’re doing and where and where you’re succeeding and the progress that you’re making, you have to give some level of context so they understand what the project is.
And so understanding that is crucial. Understanding okay, I have an audience. A lot of people know what we’re doing.
But I still have to provide context. I will give context and then I’ll get to my lead. And understanding that is really crucial, crucial for people.
Because then you do what we’re talking about, which is don’t bring in your data dump, don’t bring in, don’t bring in, you know, the novel that you could bring in. Make sure that you boil it down to what people need to hear. What does the audience need to hear?
Behind the Scenes: “Don’t Sell Past the Close”
Well, and when the audience, at whatever point in that discussion, the audience gives you the green light, they say, all right, good. We’re we’re approved. We’re ready. Let’s go. You don’t have to keep talking.
I, I was I was taught that in a very direct way in my banking career. I was trying to pitch a project where I needed big money allocated. And I was sitting with the president of the bank and the CFO and some other senior leaders. And I did my little pitch. And in about ten minutes, the president says “Approved. We’re done. This sounds like a great idea.“
Well, I wasn’t done giving the reasons why. And and I kept talking and he grabbed my shoulder and he said, “Doug, don’t sell past the close.”
That’s it. I was just going to say that you. Doug. You sold me on the clothes. You sold past the clothes. And the thing is. Okay, so that’s. But we’re talking about two different things, and I just want to address both, if you don’t mind.
The selling beyond the clothes is absolutely true. And in many instances, you know, especially in like a high stakes where your nerves are a little bit high. Sometimes it’s really sometimes it’s just about you’re not really hearing what’s going on around you. Sometimes you just kind of a little bit on your autopilot thing happen. And that happens to people all the time. That’s one piece of it.
Say It Once, Then Stop Talking
But the other piece of it is a lot of times when you’re doing what I ask, which is, I don’t want you to work from a script.
I want you to have notes. I want you to know the points you’re trying to make. But but in many, in most instances, you should never deliver exactly the same message exactly the same way twice.
The problem is, when you do that, sometimes if you’re judging yourself and you’re listening to yourself, you hear something come out of your mouth and go, wow, I didn’t really say that as well as I really wanted to. That didn’t come out the way I wanted to. You know what? I’m going to give it another try. And usually when you give it another try, it’s usually not even as good as the first time you did it.
Right.
And so there’s this thing which is, which is one of part of the rehearsal process, one of the reasons why we need to practice out loud and have people like Doug Thorpe saying, Andrew, you said that three times. You don’t need to say that three times. Say at once, because through practice you learn to say what you’re saying and then stop talking and allow the other person to jump in.
Key Discussion Point 7: Pace, Pitch, and the Power of the Pause
The last thing. And I know we’re coming up on time here, but the last thing I want to ask you about, I often advise my clients to consider as they’re speaking their message. Pay attention to your pace and pitch.
Yes, particularly for those who maybe English is a second language. And so there’s a dialect layer in there that some for others might be hard to understand. And inevitably, when the pressure goes up, people’s pace goes up and their pitch goes up.
They get excited in the moment, and all of a sudden they’re talking real fast and real high and and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that’s a in my book that is a credibility tell. It tells the other person you’re nervous. You’re maybe not quite sure. It does a lot of things psychologically when that pace and pitch get out of control.
Speaking to Global Audiences
Well, I think in a way we’re talking about a couple of different things at the same time. The first thing, which is, you know, you’re spot on.
And one of the things that I have the benefit of doing, I’m lucky enough to work with a lot of organizations that have a global presence. And so when I’m coaching people from North America to go and speak in EMEA, chances are really good they’re going to be standing in front of an audience of people, 75% of whom do not speak English as a primary language.
And if you come from EMEA, if you come from, you know, Spain or Italy or something like that, and then you present in North America, you know, you do as you say sometimes you do have dialect and accent issues that you’re working on.
Give People Something to Do, Not Something to Avoid
So what I coach people to do is you can you can coach people to slow down and they will for about a paragraph and then they don’t anymore. And because I believe it’s because you’re actually literally asking somebody in front of an audience to not do something, don’t go fast.
And that’s really hard to focus on doing that negative thing. If you give people something to do that’s proactive and positive, they’re more likely to be able to pull it off.
So I ask people, especially when they know that there’s going to be some level of speaking barrier, which is a language barrier or a dialect barrier or something like that. If there’s a speaking barrier. Make sure that what you’re doing is you’re hyper articulating and hyper enunciating exactly like I’m doing right now.
I’m still actually speaking relatively quickly on purpose, but if you notice, I’m forming all of my words in the beginning and the end very specifically. So you hear everything that I’m saying, even when I go really fast, I’m still doing exactly the same thing. And so that enunciation mitigates my speed for most people. It also slows them down.
The Pause Nobody Takes
And that actually also allows you that actually allows you to do the second piece, which is when you’re coaching people any time to get in front of an audience. The one thing nobody does enough is to pause. They just don’t stop talking enough.
And the more you pause, the more you allow an audience to catch up with you and stay with you. Which also leads us to the last piece, which is the more you pause, it also allows you to bring more variety to the way you speak.
So even even beyond, don’t you moderate your speech and your pitch. Even beyond that, you want to have different levels of pace and pitch and a lot of different things while you’re speaking. You cannot bring that variety to your speech unless you stop talking. You need to pause in order to allow yourself to shift right.
And modulating that part of the presentation helps keep the engagement alive, because if you just show up with a very monotone, blah blah, blah.
Blah blah blah. Bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah.
Run thing. One thing after another. You put the audience to sleep. Literally. And if, if there’s no interest there in the inflection and the pause, I agree with you totally on the pause it. And that’s where people become guilty of the filler words, the ums and the ahs.
Embrace the Pause
Well, they they do the ums and the US because the pauses are uncomfortable for them, right? It’s why you have to spend so much time coaching people to embrace them.
You have to embrace those pauses, because not only do they help you bring more variety, your audience needs them to stay with you. They’re taking in everything you’re saying at your speed. And that is challenging for them because a lot of people are used to reading things.
When you read things, you take things in at your own speed. When you’re listening to a speaker, you’re taking things in at their speed. And they also probably have a deck, too. So you’re taking in something that has some complexity attached to it. Make sure you give your audience enough time to stay with you so you are quite literally on the same page.
Closing Thoughts
I love it. Well, Andrew, this has been great. I really appreciate you sharing? Tell people the best way to get in touch with you if they’re interested in more about your work.
I work with a consultancy called Butterfield Speaks. I’m an associate at Butterfield Speaks. And if you go to our website, Butterfield Speaks Through. You will be able to connect with me.
And I’m in the process right now as we speak of putting together a a short video that will illustrate for everyone many things that you can do to make your process so much more effective and so much more productive for you individually.
Perfect. Well, as always folks, we’re going to have that link in the show notes. And do feel free to explore Andrew’s background and work. And one last time, Andrew, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you, Doug. Thanks for having me.
You bet. Well, folks, this is the part of the show I’d like to remind you. We have a video version over on YouTube channel by the same name. Leadership. Powered by common sense. Hop over there. Join the channel. Subscribe for us if you will.
We’ve got shows dropping twice a week, so we’ve got a lot of good information. Great guests like Andrew coming at you. So join us and leave me a comment. Let me know what you’re thinking if you’ve got ideas for other guests.
If you need to get Ahold of me, it’s Doug thorpe.com. Real simple, straightforward. We’d love to hear from you. And I do offer a free advisory consult to see where you are in your leadership journey and what might be on your mind, and if there’s anything I can do to help you with that.
But with that, we’re going to sign off, say goodbye, go out there, make it a great day.
Meet Our Guest – Andrew Hurteau
My focus is executive communication, leadership influence, and organizational alignment. I help CEOs, founders, and senior leadership teams communicate with the clarity and confidence needed to lead change, align stakeholders, and drive execution across their organizations.
The main topics I’d share with your audience include:
1. Why many leadership challenges are actually communication challenges
2. Building trust and credibility in high-stakes conversations
3. Developing executive presence through clarity, confidence, and authenticity, not charisma
4. Practical frameworks leaders can use immediately in meetings, presentations, board discussions, and team conversations
Connect with Doug Thorpe
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougthorpe/
- Doug Thorpe Website: https://dougthorpe.com/
- Podcasts: https://podcasts.dougthorpe.com
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/dougthorpe_com
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/headwayexec
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/dougthorpe_com
- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@dougthorpe
