Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Thank you for reading this post, don't forget to subscribe!
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | Android | Pandora | iHeartRadio | Podchaser | Email | TuneIn | Deezer | RSS | More
— A Conversation with Ron Monteiro
Introduction
Do you love Mondays? That’s an interesting question. And often people say not so much. Well, my guest today is going to talk to us about that. He’s got some experience and has written a book encouraging us to love Mondays once again. His name is Ron Monteiro. Ron, welcome to the show.
Thank you Doug. Very happy to be here.
Yeah. So, let’s start a little bit. Can you share a little bit of your career journey and how you got focused on this topic idea that you have?
Meet the Guest: A 20-Year Finance Career
Yeah, for sure. So I have a 20 year career in finance, accounting. It’s exciting. Right? But in all seriousness, so I did start at a company where the accounting department was almost backroom and it was just kind of, you know, crunched the numbers and hand it over to the rest of the team. And it was one of those ones where you were busy at month end and you were kind of bored between the month.
And, you know, I thought that was the trajectory of an accounting career. And then I landed at Kraft Foods, which at the time had a phenomenal culture and finance and accounting was at the table, and we were helping make business decisions, and they really invested in the person and said, look, we’re going to help you get to your potential. And I ended up staying there for 15 years when in is a very shy junior accountant and came out as a senior director working in the business. And I really believe that transformative culture is what helped me come to the realization that, you know, there are environments where we can thrive and love what we do, no matter what function we’re in, right? So seemingly my my first job was such a contrast the second. And then I went to various environments after that. And I was always searching for that environment, which I looked forward to coming in on a Monday I had friends at work, I thrived, I got promoted, and, you know, I found some really good cultures, but nothing like that craft experience where it was a leadership commitment.
You know, even for me as a leader, I had a commitment to helping the junior staff find their potential. And now as an entrepreneur, I genuinely love my Mondays. I love doing what I do. So I really believe there’s a quest to find our personal, you know, purposes or whatever you want to call it, and find more joy in Monday and every other day of the week. So that’s a little bit about my career, you know, pretty linear finance career. And then five years ago, I started my own business.
What Made the Kraft Culture Work
What do you think it was that Kraft was successful in doing to build that kind of culture?
Yeah, I think I think it was a significant investment in in time and resources. So for example, and my, my, all my other jobs, it was like, hey, Monday morning you start work, get into your cube or your office and start pounding away at your spreadsheets. And what crafted that was quite different is every year at the time, they actually had like a three day orientation for all new team members.
And so whether as an accounting, sales, marketing, operations, we visited a manufacturing facility, we went out with sales folks. We had leaders from different functions come and talk to us and explain why our jobs were important to the total organization. And it wasn’t a transactional work environment. It was like, here’s here’s your role. We really value it. And importantly, let’s complete this, this tool, this HR tool which says, what what are the three jobs you want after this? So there was always a carrot. There was always like, hey, what’s the next roll. What’s a lateral roll a promotion, what’s a different part of the organization. So in that 15 years I think I did 7 to 8 jobs and there was never a dull moment. Like, you know, there wasn’t that comfort zone that, you know, many of the other companies I work for, you end up in a bit of a comfort zone, which is easier, but it’s a dangerous place to be. And I reflect on that.
15 years, it was just pure growth, and I was going from working with a certain team and then two years later, it’s a completely different team. Maybe it’s traveling across the country as a finance person. So it was many, many things they did. And then the other thing that was really interesting, there was a bit of a social aspect to it. So Friday afternoons we’d go out, we’d, you know, as a finance team, we’d meet at a bar, have a drink or have an appetizer. And it was it was much more than the work. It was a very intense work environment. So I don’t want it to come across as, hey, it was a country club. It was intense. But there was that real like character developed and it was an environment where we we loved being with each other.
The Power of Explaining the “Why”
You know, I too have had that experience of being in in an organisation where the culture was great and the camaraderie and in the old term, that nobody uses much anymore.
Esprit de corps, you know, the the pride of being part of the organization, whether you call it Putting on the badge or the uniform or whatever, but just the belongingness that went with it. And, you know, you said a key word in describing the craft experience. They explained the why, you know, why your job is important. And I think that is such a critical message that employers gloss over. It’s like, well, of course your job is important. You know, we wouldn’t have it if it wasn’t, you know, that kind of attitude. But to translate, excuse me, translate to people the the real why of their job and its existence, I think is a motivator in and of itself.
Yeah, 100%. I still remember one of my mentors. He was the CFO at Kraft Canada at the time, and he used to like on Friday afternoons just walk the halls. And, you know, management by walkabout is the term that comes up sometimes. And he really would try and connect everybody’s job to the bigger purpose, whether they were in tax and accounting and audit, no matter what it was.
He he really made them feel like their specific role contributed to the bigger picture. But to your point, right. And I’ve been in many, many other organizations, maybe it’s like, hey, it’s a hierarchical situation where the analysts, the managers, the junior folks just that don’t hear that from senior management. It’s just feed stuff up the chain and then the engagement level goes down. So I think it’s such a key part to really show people how much their role contributes to the bigger picture.
The “Drawer, Drawer, Drawer” Story
Yeah. My favorite story related to that is goes back to my banking days. I was assigned to take over a small department. I think I had about 15 or 18 people in it, and one of the things I chose to do, I went around to each person’s desk and sat with them and just said, talk to me about your work. You know, what do you do? And one lady I went up to. When I asked her that, she says, well, I take this form out of this drawer over here on my right.
I do this, this and this on the screen. And then I put the form in the left drawer and I went. Drawer, drawer, drawer. You know what? I said, well, where do those forms come from? You know who brings them up? And she goes, well, I know the person, but I don’t know what department she’s in. You know, and her name is so-and-so. And I went, Okay. And where do they go when they’re taken out of the left drawer? Well, again, I know the person, but I don’t know what she does. So I went, oh, no. And I went on a little quest. I looked up the two named associates and found their department heads, and I went down to the departments and talked to them. And when I came back, what I had discovered that I shared with this lady my person, I said, you have a very important job. And she goes, I do. And I said, yeah.
I said, so-and-so that brings these forms up and puts them in your right hand drawer. She’s from the lobby operations. This is where new customers get onboarded to our bank. And I said, the work you’re doing is setting them up in our system. Nobody else does that. If if they don’t get set up, they don’t get service. And I said, and and when the form leaves here it goes to such and such. And that’s our document control area. And that’s where we hang on to the record. And if we need a question or have a question at a later date, you know, that’s that’s where we start with our research. And she just she just kind of wow elevated, you know, and she goes, wow I’m kind of a big deal. And I said, yes, you are. I said, that’s that’s very important. Yeah. And man, from that point on, she just, you know, she was dreading Mondays. But from that point on, she was this pride factor, just, you know, hey.
And, I thought, wow, that’s kind of a simple communication. You know, it’s.
Just.
Knowing the details and figuring this out, and, you know, it makes a world of difference.
Yeah, it’s it’s a simple thing, but it’s often missed. Right? And people, you know, use the words, I’m too busy, I don’t have time. All these type of things. But think about the pride you witnessed in in that story. Or think about a whole organization where people have that pride and the energy that comes out of it, the productivity, the business results. It’s powerful. Right? So that investment to me has a huge high ROI, like a return on investment. And leaders often miss that step. Simple, but often not done.
Inside the Book: “Love Mondays”
Yeah. Well, let’s talk about your book, Ron. You you do title it Love Mondays and what? What are some of the topics and themes you cover in that book?
Yeah, so? So the first part of the book is really around personal purpose, right? And I look I use my story as an example.
My dad was a math teacher, I just followed, hey, I was academically good at math. I never stopped to say, do I like it? And I just followed a path where, hey, accounting might be a natural extension of that and I literally was on a linear path without questioning. Is that something I actually love to do? And I again, I had this great fortune of landing at a company called craft, where I was able to flex my muscles of public speaking and learn all these things which to me were not even in my field of vision. And accidentally I found more purpose with that. And that was a little bit of like a sliding door moment. So I found that. And then I realized I was like, I took this training course where I realized I love teaching. So that’s when I five years ago, I said, I want to start my own workshop training business, and it’s really helped me go from, hey, I you know, Mondays are okay. I like them to like, I love doing what I do.
And at the end of one of my sessions, I feel like a rock star. So I found this like personal purpose. So it’s a four step process in the in the beginning to say, how do we find more of the purpose? How do we stop evaluate? Are we loving Mondays and every other day? And one of the concepts I use is a Japanese concept called ikigai. I don’t know if you’ve come across that, and it’s just asking and you know, you know, iterating on four questions. What do you love to do? What are you good at? What does the world need and what can you get paid for? And when I sit there and say, look, I might be on a certain path, but is that giving me a lot of joy? And the extension of that becomes I did a, I did some math to say, how many hours do we work in our lifetime? Do you want to do you want to guess?
It’s at least at least two thirds of our existence, I’m sure.
But.
Yeah. So. So the rough math is 90,000 hours. Ooh, yeah. So I step back and say, shouldn’t we all find a little bit more joy? And it’s one step at a time. It’s not like this big revelation that came out like, you know, the clouds parted or anything. It’s it takes work to say, let me slowly move towards that path. Right. So even for me, I went from working full time as a finance director to now I’m doing keynote speeches and workshops. But it was one small step at a time, right? It was, hey, let me do a free workshop for some of my CFO friends, test it out if they like it, make some adjustments, change it. And then the second part of the book is really around. As leaders, how do you create an environment for your team members to help them? Love Mondays, and I really modeled it after my craft experience. I said, what were the factors that made a guy like me like a finance guy? Think about it.
Going into your refrigerator and checking if you have Kraft Cheese. I was like that passionate, like a seemingly, you know, support function guy is coming in and has that much pride, to use the word you talked about. And in that middle section, I have seven factors that contribute to a Love Mondays culture. And then the third section is 20 people I’ve interviewed in different walks of life. So it could be a CEO, it could be a teacher, could be a Buddhist monk, could be an author who loved their Mondays. And I tried to distill what are some of the things that makes them love what they do. So essentially, it’s a three part process, and it’s very much a working type book where at the end of every section, there’s a little worksheet to say, okay, it’s going to take some work, but we can all do it.
The Linear Path and the Loss of Purpose
You know, that. That’s very amazing. And I have witnessed that throughout my career. And your story of that linear path, whether it was influenced by your parents or or some curiosity you had at a young age, people, inevitably do get on a path, and it just may not be the path that’s going to be that kind of fulfilling.
It’s logical, it’s practical, and you, you end up on it and maybe you are promoted early in the process. So you’re, you know, let’s call it quote unquote rewarded for your, yes, participation in that journey. And for a brief minute, you’re you’re motivated, you’re excited. Hey, I just got promoted. And, you know, you kind of lean in, but then eventually it becomes another kind of grind, different level, different devil. And, you you wake up ten, 15, 20 years later and you go, what am I doing? You know, what is this? And is this fulfilling? Is this not. And I reflect on that, and I got to go back in the history books a little bit to 2008 and the big recession, and I had to close the company myself during that time because of the fallout. And I turned my attention to running a nonprofit I had created for job seekers. And one of the first things we uncovered was how many people had lost.
Totally lost a sense of purpose. Yes, they were just on the gerbil circle, you know, running the wheel and going to work and not loving Mondays, not feeling particularly fulfilled, maybe financially rewarded but not otherwise incentivized. And because of the crash, a lot of good people lost jobs through no fault of their own, and they were sitting there with a total loss of identity and purpose. And so part of what my organization did, we helped people reconnect with purpose and peel away the title and the jargon of whatever path they had been on, and just get back to a a sense of personal purpose. And I’ll share real quick one of the ways we did that. We we had what we called an accomplishments inventory. We asked people to look at their work up to that point and differentiate between the things that made them feel good and fulfilled and those that didn’t. And when you check box, you know, pluses or minuses and you group all the pluses together. Inevitably there was some common denominator that made them feel fulfilled, like maybe it was crunching the numbers, or maybe it was technology, or maybe it was dealing with people and standing up and giving a presentation or whatever.
Everybody had a pattern in their pluses. So when we turn their attention to again, peeling away the jargon and the technical aspects of what they had been doing, and look at the core elements, they were able to say, oh, if I did a if I found a job where I could do all of that all day long, I would definitely be fulfilled. And that’s what people started doing. And it worked.
Yes. Yeah, I know, it really reminds me of the course I took, I mentioned a little earlier where we had these three amazing coaches, Mike, Wayne and Nick, who came in and essentially did a very similar exercise. It was really values based, but it led to the same question you asked, and it was that was a lightbulb moment because I went through my 15 year career at the time and I was like, my favorite experience was teaching a course that I was volunteered for. I didn’t even volunteer for it. I was told you were leading this. It was one of the hardest experiences of my career, most rewarding.
And that’s when I literally said, I need to be a teacher. And then I started going to like I was like, okay, should I be a university professor? Should I be a college professor? And I went down that, you know, winding path and ended up where I am now. But it’s that same accomplishments inventory that you talked about is something we often don’t do. We just go, you know, and I’m also reading Jim Collins book, What to Make of a life. Brilliant book. If you if you haven’t seen it. This is his new book and he talks about that reward. You get rewarded in a career, right? You talked about it and you end up on this path in 15, 20 years later, you look back and say, what happened, right? It’s not an intentional. It’s just following the, you know, the corporate training. I was in line for many CFO jobs, but my pattern got interrupted and I consciously said, I’m going to do something different.
The Courage to Change Course
Yeah. And it’s having the courage to make that call and just say, hey, I I don’t see long term fulfillment in what this path is leading me toward. Therefore, I need to own my own life and my own destiny. And you know, sometimes when I talk to clients about this idea, there are those that think it’s too touchy feely and too kind of woo woo to, to pay attention to, but essentially, I don’t use your terminology, but I do respond back with the core question, do you do you like showing up for work?
Yes.
And when you when they think of of it in those terms, it’s like. I used to, but not so much, you know. And that that’s that’s a pretty telling indictment.
Yeah. And it takes courage, but it also takes oftentimes an event where you got to hit a low of some sort. Right. And for me, I actually during the pandemic, I actually collapsed and I don’t know what it was. It could be the elevated level of stress, but that was the moment where I had a couple of days to say, look, there’s something not right with me.
And as soon as I made that decision, things started to improve, even on the health side. Like it was tough, like, I mean, my first two years running my own business, I it sounds like, you know, the the path. It’s very hard, right? But that actually energized me and helped me get to where I am now, where people look at me and say, hey, there’s something different about your energy. It’s very different than it was before. And that’s that’s what that, you know, you you talk about courage. Whatever it is, it’s like making that tough decision often has rewards that you don’t even know. Like, I, I pinch myself sometimes, like I’m on a podcast with you. I’ve been on TV. I’ve been around the world teaching now, which is not something I even would have dreamed about a few years ago.
The “Airport” Coaching Question
You know, and I’ve I’ve learned a method that I forget who shared it with me originally. It’s been quite some time ago now, but from a coaching perspective, sometimes I use this tool.
I’ll say to somebody, hey Ron, let’s, let’s, let’s think just a minute. What if five years from now I run into you at an airport and I say, wow, you look great, man. You just the energy and the aura around you is is amazing. And something must be working, right, you know? Tell me what that was that got you there. And you asked the question. If that was all true, what would have changed?
Yes.
And that that causes people to pause them in it, you know, and think, well, I’ve got to I’ve got to get rid of this. I gotta stop doing that. I need to go here. I need to do that. And, you know, and then all of a sudden the imagination kicks in and people have to give themselves Permission to think what if.
Yes, yes, that permission is so important. And you know, for me, I had a coach. Who? Wayne, who really helped me through this transition.
Because there’s a lot of ups and downs when you make a pretty significant decision in your life. Right. So pausing to to ask those questions is great, but then it’s like, okay, now what are the daily actions to help you get to that place where five years from now, you’ll have that energy and aura. And my coach, Wayne, like, there were times like Doug where I was like, I’m out of here. I’m going back to corporate. I can’t do it. And he would actually say, no, Ron, you got it. Let’s just take one small step. And he used to use the analogy, we’re crossing a river. He’s like, we’re going to do one line across the bridge. What’s that one thing? And it was such he just had this energy where after a call with Wayne, I felt like I could walk on water. So. So that’s where like, you know what you do as a coach, it’s so helpful to say it takes a village to make a pretty significant change in your life.
And I had the benefit of having all these phenomenal people show up in my life when I needed them.
Leaders as Coaches
Well, and, you know, on that point, it goes back to it sounds like something you experienced at Kraft. The leadership group embraced the idea of themselves being coaches for their people. Yes. And all those things you describe that Wayne did for you when managers take on that idea of being that kind of influence on their people, it’s not just about the work anymore. It’s it’s about human realization of success, you know, and picking everybody up a level or two in their in their mental commitment to what they’re doing.
Yeah. No. And, you know, being a people leader is such a privilege. Right. And it’s, again, the art of leading people and really caring for them in some ways has been lost. And, you know, part of it is the whole Covid pandemic where everybody was online and, you know, the in-person connection was lost and things like that. So I’m, you know, I’m kind of glad we’re going to some form of normalcy where hopefully that human connection comes back.
And to me, that’s the the beginning of a relationship. It’s not about the work. How do you build trust first? And you know the old saying, people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. It’s such an important thing to say, how am I going to build trust with the person? How am I going to show them I’m in their corner? How am I not going to call them out in a public meeting? How am I going to coach them in private? All these things again, back to my craft days. I had a three four day course where I learned people management theoretically, and then I got to practice it right and make mistakes and learn. And again, I was evaluated on my ability to coach others. It wasn’t just a business results that was just as important as the business results.
Prioritizing People Development
Yeah, I count it as a win when I’m invited to join up into a company and work with some of their leaders, and I learn that there is a high priority on developing others and yes, and managers reporting to managers.
You know, when that dialogue happens, there’s always a mention of what’s going on now to elevate your people. You know, okay, we talk about the status of the project and the, you know, the timeline and the priority stack we’ve got. But let’s go back to the basics. You know, what are what is happening with your people development right now and creating. Number one, the commitment to that. And number two, the enforcement and the support for having that happen. And junior managers being told by senior managers spending their time doing that is of value. Yes. I can’t tell you how many junior leaders and the. When I say junior, I’m talking about first promotion. Second or third promotion. You know, those kind of leaders who are still grappling with what do I really do at this in this role? You know, I’m, I was originally promoted for my individual contribution. And so maybe I need to double down on that. Well, no you don’t. That’s not unless you’re in a rare situation where it’s clear you’re supposed to be a player coach.
No, you you have a new people management responsibility. And for the companies that don’t do any training on that for their first time, promotes shame on you. You know that you need to do more of that. You need to help elevate and set the priority for what that should be about.
Yeah, I know the book. What Got You Here won’t get you there. Popped in my mind immediately and I had. I had the privilege of actually interviewing Marshall Goldsmith. He talks about that so clearly. To say it is exactly not what got what got you here that’s going to help you succeed in the next level. So that investment to help these individual contributors learn a whole bunch of new skills often is missed, right? Things like delegation and, you know, having difficult conversations. That’s something that you really need help, especially in my world where many people were introverted, maybe a little on the quieter side, maybe fantastic technically. But again, to your point, that’s not going to help them succeed in their current role where they’ve got a team of people.
Right, right.
Closing Thoughts
Well, Ron, I think we’re about up on time. I really appreciate you sitting in. And folks, that took us a minute to get together here. Ron. And I’ve been working on this almost a year to get our schedules synced up so we could do this. But he’s a busy guy. And, Ron, tell people the best way to get in touch with you if they’re interested in knowing more.
Yeah, the best way is LinkedIn. So I’m quite active on LinkedIn. So I’d love to connect with you. And you know, I’m super passionate about this concept. I think we can all find more joy and fulfillment in every single day.
Amen to that. Well, folks, this is a part of the show. A couple of things I do want to remind you. We will have links for Ron’s contact in our show notes, both on YouTube and in our posting. check out our channel over on YouTube. The same name. Leadership powered by common sense.
Would love to have you join the channel and join the community. We belong there. I think that’s it for now. We’re going to sign off, say goodbye, and go out there and make it a great day.
Connect with Doug Thorpe
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougthorpe/
- Doug Thorpe Website: https://dougthorpe.com/
- Podcasts: https://podcasts.dougthorpe.com
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/dougthorpe_com
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/headwayexec
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/dougthorpe_com
- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@dougthorpe
