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How to Get to the Damn Point: A Conversation on Clarity, Communication, and Leadership with Justin Atherton
Introduction
Hey, when you’re in leadership, communication is often a hot topic, something that most people put on their list of things they need to know about and do well. But do you know how to get to the damn point? Sometimes it’s tempting to just ramble around and not get there. Well, my guest today has written a book by that title, How to Get to the Damn Point. And he is someone who’s got a great background where that has been literally a life and death situation in a few cases. His name is Justin Atherton. Justin, welcome to the show.
Thank you Doug. I’m excited to to help your audience figure out how to get to the point.
Yeah. You know, and and man, you know, when I first was introduced to you and and and read through the background info. I can’t tell you how many times in my own coaching practice I deal with folks who have been given feedback that they they’re not on point, they’re they ramble or they, I call it backing up the dump truck, providing too much information and not getting to the bottom line first.
But, enough of what I’d talk about. Give us your backstory real quick. Give us the, you know, career journey arc for you.
Meet the Guest: 20 Years in Law Enforcement
Sure. So I’m I’m recently retired from law enforcement. I spent 20 years in my career, started with the Texas prison system, worked gang intelligence there. I did all the cool guy stuff. Right. Like, I was on the Swat team. I was a preacher. I was a detective. I had numerous leadership roles along the way. and probably my favorite part was, was being over training and being able to, whether it was teaching defensive tactics or wellness or leadership or the scenario training that we would go over. But that was my favorite, to see someone actually change for the better. And, the funny thing is, is like the the book, the how to Get to the Damn Point that was written out of frustration from all of the, the, the horrible meetings I’ve, I’ve gone through over the years and like you said, backing up the dump truck.
I think that’s a great way to put it. I it’s, I’m gonna steal that one from you. Doug. That was that was a great one. because we we love to to push all that that out there, but it was just accumulation of everything in my career. But, that that’s the the short of it for me.
Why We Ramble: The Roots of Over-Communication
Yeah. And I don’t know, we could we could probably veer off in a whole lot of psychological debate in theory about why people feel the need to, provide too much information. Maybe it’s. It ranges from. They want to prove they’re smart and capable. So when they get that moment to speak to a significant audience, they they overload the, the content. Sometimes it’s just a matter of not able to get your thoughts together in your own head. And you, you you don’t know what the point is. You just start talking. And I mean, and probably everything else in between. So what are some of the things you try to bring out in your book?
So a lot of it is just building a framework because like you mentioned, there’s several reasons that we do this, and I talk about a few of them in the book.
Some of them, like you said, we’re thinking out loud. We haven’t even bothered to attempt to formulate the thought yet. And so when we’re speaking with our team, we haven’t prepared. And so we’re punishing them for our lack of preparation by thinking out loud, and we’re bouncing around all these different ideas and and trying to formulate the thought. And some of it is trying to sound smarter. I think a part of this type of ineffective communication is contagious. Like we’ve seen other leaders speak in this manner. Well, so when I promote, I have to use bigger words. I have to use more words. That’s how leaders speak. That’s nonsense. And because your message gets lost in all of the the extra context that we’re giving up front rather than just starting with the point. So I talk a lot about different frameworks in my, in my book to help people practice leading with the point first.
Clarity Is a Leadership Obligation
And one thing that comes to my mind is something I advocate with, with all of my leadership clients, and that is clarity.
You have to be sure you’re clear on on what it is you want, what you expect, or your definition of the vision. And when you can create clarity, good people are going to do good work and good things because good people want to do good work. And if you tell them clearly what is the next good thing for your team, your business, your situation, they’re they’re going to want to go execute. And the the other element that goes with that, I, I heard someone once make a phrase or make a statement that if you’re in a position of leadership where the authority of the position is very clear to everybody in whatever that may mean, but it’s pretty clear to everybody. Anything you say probably has a weighting factor of about ten times what you expect it to be. And so therefore, it’s important that you as a leader are careful with the message you put out there.
Absolutely. And that’s why I preach a lot. That clarity is a leadership obligation. And it you may you hit the nail on the head with the weight of the position sometimes.
What’s funny is that most leaders think once they get the message out, that’s the end of it. It’s like, well, I said it. I told you, therefore you should know the direction we’re going. You should know all the context in my head behind that. But it’s it’s a leader’s obligation to make sure that clarity is landing. And I think we’ve all seen this old broken communication model like they teach it in school. They still teach it. The sender encodes a message, gives it to the receiver. The receiver decodes the message and gives some type of feedback. It’s like, oh, that’s that’s communication. Well, just because I can repeat your words back to you, Doug, doesn’t mean that we’re talking the same language. Just means I heard the words and said, this is what you said. That is not understanding. And so a question that I suggest everyone to stop asking your team is, do you understand? Because what’s our normal answer?
Sure I do.
We’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand because because we don’t want to be embarrassed. We don’t want to sound dumb because you don’t understand or you need some clarification. So rather than asking that and putting the weight on on your employees, on your team, you have to turn around and steal that responsibility for yourself and say, hey, I just explained this process to you, Doug. What part of this process was unclear that that I explained to you that I didn’t make clear enough. Right. I’m taking that ownership that I failed on the communication. Or another great question is, what do you think is the first step that you’re going to take in order to get this accomplished? Or what resources do you need from me to help you make sure that this task gets completed? In those questions, we’re stealing the ownership. And and that allows the conversation to be more honest and then to say, well, you know what? This part wasn’t clear. I’m not exactly sure what you were saying here. So then we’re having that conversation to make sure that we’re being clear so that it becomes executed properly.
Trigger Words and Abstract Language
Yeah. You know, that clarity of meaning and everything is, is a is a critical part. And back to your the model you describe that is classically taught for communication, which is really kind of a four part exercise. What I what I add to that is that I think leaders need to be sensitive to those last two parts. It’s the way a person takes it in. Did they hear the words literally? Yes, sure. You know, check that. But then, like you said, part four is the is the real understanding. And I think part of that understanding can be related to it. Was there anything about what you said that might be taking taken wrong by the recipient? Maybe a a trigger word in their life? And I use the simple story. When my wife and I first got married, we were going through the classic things couples do, you know, kind of learning the the tripwires and the boundaries of things and, and, but one day I made an observation about something outside of our relationship.
but I use the word stupid. I thought that action was stupid and my wife recoiled and she kind of went, you know, and there was this moment I said, oh, what did I say? What did I do? And she said, oh, when I grew up in my house, stupid was a bad word. You couldn’t you couldn’t say that or do that. And I had to say, oh my gosh, I’m sorry. I, you know, in, in, in my house, stupid was stupid. It didn’t mean a whole lot more, you know, there was nothing else else to it, but I’m sorry. And so I, you know, mental note, want to be a good husband. I, I adjusted my vocabulary a little bit to avoid that trigger word. And as time has gone on she’s embraced the idea. You know some things in life are just seem stupid. So maybe that is a good word.
Well I think you bring up a great point there.
Like yes people have trigger words, but also most of the time we speak with these words that are concepts or their abstract words, where you and I can have different definitions on what they mean, because I can walk into a room with 100 people and talk about leadership and or ask everyone for a definition of leadership. I’m going to get 100 different answers, right? Because leadership is not a behavior. It’s a theory. It’s a concept. And sometimes we talk about these theories and concepts like like we all have the same exact definition. And it’s it’s the obligation of the leader to make sure that we’re speaking in behavioral terminology so that everyone understands what is the expectation. And if if I find myself using these abstract conceptual words, or if I hear my team member using that, we need to make sure that that definition lines up. I think that’s where a lot of those communication issues pop up.
Building Culture From the Top Down (and Why It Fails)
Well, in case in point, I’ve been involved in several different initiatives where companies are trying to modify the culture in the company, you know.
So the C-suite has, you know, maybe hired a consultant or done some work, however they come about it. But they build this framework that defines quote unquote, the culture they want to have. And maybe it’s a half dozen keywords. You know, our culture is about these principles, and that’s all fine and good. You got to start somewhere, right? But as you and I are talking here, the whole point is if you’re going to really impact the culture with that framework, you’ve got to have the discussions about what does this mean to you, what what is your interpretation of this word? And oh, by the way. Let me share the intent that we had when we framed it this way. You know, here’s what we were trying to achieve. And and that’s a that’s a time consuming exercise to get all of your leadership cascaded down. And as the phrase goes on the same page about what the significance of those definitions are and how they should be interpreted, and I’ve seen a lot of companies, they spent a lot of money in designing the framework.
And they they print up a bunch of tchotchkes and t shirts and send it out and go, we have a new culture. Woo hoo hoo! And people are scratching their head going, oh no, I don’t think so.
Yeah, it I, I love that concept. I, and I actually talk about that in some of the classes I teach on emotional regulation inside of corporations Because it happens exactly like you said. They build it from the top down. Hey, here’s some great words that we want to use for our mission, our values. But no one understands what they mean. Like, where do these even come from? There’s no like Genesis. And what’s interesting is if you if you start with the emotions that you want your team to feel when they show up to work. Think about that. Like, think about like, what do you want your employees to feel when they show up to work? And what do you want your customers to feel when they interact with your employees? And if we start there, that’s what’s going to build culture.
That’s what’s going to change things like, what are those emotions? Is it pride? Is it enthusiasm? Is it, you know trust? Is it respect? What are those emotions. And you can build your values from that. And think about how much more impactful that’s going to be when you have that conversation with the entire group saying, this is how we want our team to feel when they come here, and this is how we want our customers to feel when we interact with them. And then you build your values and your mission statement from that. That’s what’s going to change the culture.
When Values Live on a Card: Two Companies, Two Outcomes
Agreed. And as you’re saying that, I’m thinking about a scenario I was part of a couple of years ago, I coincidentally had some coaching engagements with two different companies, comparable sized, radically different industries. But we got to talking about the culture, values and and mission vision and all that stuff. And in both cases, the company had done the work and they printed their values and vision on a card that was suitable for going on the back of your card key.
You know, your your security card that you go around the facilities with. And both companies have done the same thing. They had the cards printed up, everybody got one, you know, and all that. At one company. What people talked about was that they watched senior leaders sit in meetings and discuss key decisions and literally pull out their card and go down the list and say, does this decision check this box? This box is box, this box. Oops. Let’s talk about number five. I think we’re on the brink of violating this principle with the way this decision is going. Let’s talk about that. So they were they were demonstrating commitment to those values and in some cases even making what felt like radical decisions pro or con, based on the fact that it was going to violate one of those principles or not, or enforce one of those principles. And that allowed people to get it. You know, it’s like, oh, if the senior leaders are reading these cards on a regular basis, doing what is reminded on that card, maybe I better do that same thing at the other company.
People would pull out the card and go. Joke joke joke. Nobody lives by this. Nobody operates this way. We just have more junk on our lanyard that we have to carry around.
That’s interesting. I mean, and we normally see the second one when we come into two companies. That first one, that’s impressive to me that that a company is literally pulling out the values and the mission going, okay, we’re trying to implement this new process. Yep. 123. Oh, number four, we need to make some adjustments because it’s going to violate. That’s not to me I’m I’m impressed with that that that’s happening.
Safety First: A $400,000 Decision
Well and and not to go too deep into it. But one example that I was given was that they had negotiated a divestiture of one of their facilities, so they already had a buyer signed up to take over the facility. But the closing wasn’t going to happen for something like nine months. And they discovered they had a safety issue in the facility. And to properly change the risk, they were going to have to spend $400,000 to modify something in the plant.
And what do most businesses do when they already know they’ve got a buyer signed up? Are they going to spend that 400,000? No. No they’re not. But this company, one of their line items, top of the card, was safety first for our people. And the executive making the final call said write the check 400,000. It’s, you know, we’ve still got nine months to protect our people. So write the check. Let’s do it. And everybody. Everybody went whoa.
You know that’s great leadership right there. Yeah yeah.
The Number One Challenge Companies Face
Yeah. Well, Justin, when you, kind of meet up with a new company who inquires and calls you in to do some work, what what are some of the classic, challenges you run into communication.
And that is that is by far number one is a lack of clear communication within the company, which because that’s the main issue, because we can talk about processes not being, you know, followed through different standards, procedures, holding people accountable, leadership issues, all of that comes back to clear and concise communication.
And so that’s that’s the focus. That’s the focus. When I come in and do these workshops with these companies and help their teams learn how to communicate more effectively and also realize their own, communication errors. Because we we expect that our team understands what we said the first time we said it. We almost expect our teams to be mind readers on some level. And so that’s a huge lightbulb moment for these companies when they’re like, oh, oh, some of this was my fault, that leadership obligation to say I’m the one that was creating the communication issue, it wasn’t my team.
Good People Want to Do Good Work
Yeah. Back to what I was saying about good people want to do good work. I’ve, I didn’t always believe that. By the way, just for the record. And it took my own evolution of my leadership beliefs and and observations to change my own mind. But, What I’m thinking is, you know, it’s not uncommon. I go somewhere and I’ll ask a new client. What what’s your biggest concern? And they’ll say something like, my team just seems to be stagnant.
They’re there. They’re not going anywhere. They’re. They’re just not doing that much. And I immediately go into the. Well, have you been clear about what you need them to do? Because here’s the economy of that scenario. If you’ve got good people on your team and I know that’s a a big if, but assuming you do have reasonably good people across the roster, they want to do good work. If they don’t know what good work is, guess what? They’re going to do nothing because they’re not intentionally going to do something wrong that’s counter to their values. So they are going to paddle water or or hover or whatever until they get that clarity of purpose and direction.
Yeah. And it it creates such a huge issue. Because I’ve seen that so many times, whether it was in law enforcement throughout the years or in these other companies. I think you described it perfectly, that paddling water, it’s like, well, I’m just going to like hang out until like I’m told to do something because, you know, I don’t know exactly what I need to do.
I don’t know what the expectation is. And I don’t want to mess up. I don’t want to get reprimanded. Maybe that’s a fear that they’re living in. If I step outside the bounds, I’m going to get reprimanded for for not doing the job right. And so it’s it’s a little bit of self-preservation for your team. They’re just like, I’m just going to hang out until I get some clear direction. But then once you get a leader that goes, oh, I haven’t been clear. And then they start communicating clearly and then all the cylinders start running. It’s like, okay. All it took was some communication on on this level here. And I’ve seen that so many times. I can think about, some supervisors in the past. I remember one of the first times I promoted to sergeant working, being a patrol sergeant on on nights. And I took it that shift over from another supervisor, and he was telling me about two officers that he was like, well, they’re lazy, they’re scared.
And I was like, okay, maybe. And so I just kind of watched for, you know, a little while seeing how they produced and what it really came down to is they had never been given any clear direction. You know, they were newer officers, didn’t really understand like some aspects of the job. And once I sat down with them and say, like, hey, this is what I’m seeing, you know, here’s some ways to be more productive in this area. And giving them tools. Giving them resources. Then it was like, oh, then they flourished and it was like so that the initial perception was that they’re lazy or they’re cowards. And then a little bit of coaching, a little bit of clear communication and they turn into great employees, great officers.
Evaluating People Accurately
Yeah. Again, you know, incumbent on the leader and an obligation, not just a description, but that ability to evaluate your people accurately and identify the opportunities you might have. If it is just a lack of some of the coaching or the equipping to to be successful and having the direct conversation with them, here’s what success should look like.
You, you, you’ve got to really be prepared to do that. And I you know, I’m. I have dealt with leaders. I’m thinking of one in particular. Incredibly bright guy. You know, book smart but common sense. Not so much. And a lot of his attitude was I’m just going to write the the memo and everybody should get it. You know everybody should just go execute. Yeah. And it’s like no you I mean the memo is a good start. You might put your ideas out there, but you got to have that exchange of what do you really mean here when you say this or do you say that? What do you really want me to do in my area of contribution to this effort?
Yeah. And if you’re not having some type of collective conversation to figure out, how is this process going to be implemented just because we see it from the top and hey, this is what we want to accomplish. Let me write this memo. We should be having those conversations with the rest of the team before something like that goes out, right? And be like, hey, how are we going to accomplish this? What are some things that are going to get in our way of accomplishing this task or creating this process? Because most of the time when we write those memos or those SOPs, we’re not the ones that are going to be doing them right, like the the the leaders that are writing it aren’t in the process.
They’ve got that 300 zero foot view. And so I think it’s important and necessary for us to include the people that are going to be implementing that process. What are the issues that are going to come up? What resources are you going to need? Tell me how I’m seeing this. You know, wrong. You know, giving your team that permission to correct you. I think that’s another huge piece that most leaders don’t do. It’s like, hey team, if I’m saying something wrong or if if this doesn’t make sense to you, I’m giving you the permission to come to me respectfully and and discuss this so that we can be clear on what the expectations are.
Psychological Safety and Accountability
Right? I think you’re right. And that immediately bleeds into the whole concept of psychological safety in the workplace. You know, the leader needs to set the standard for what that looks like and what it can be. And that is the basis for building trust across your team and the trust and confidence to come forward. Raise their hand and say, hey, boss, I know you’re a smart guy, but you know this.
This doesn’t resonate in my part of the world. It you know it. Either I don’t understand it or it doesn’t work for me. And you know, here, what can we do about it? What what do I need to know differently? And, having that environment where those discussions can happen without ridicule, without judgment, without, you know, that any of the negative that might be around there. And boys, so much of communication now, at least in the coaching circles, there is so much concern for the notion of building accountability at work. And in my humble opinion, the only way to have accountability has to start with the right communication about what the next right thing is going to be, and helping to clarify for everybody on your team how their contribution can make it happen.
Yeah, I’ve seen that too many times where we try to hold people accountable for these vague expectations that were set out there, and so now we’re upset. The leadership’s upset because they didn’t follow the instructions, but then the team’s upset because they’re like, well, your instructions weren’t clear.
How was I supposed to know? And so that’s that rift of like, well, now I need to hold you accountable. Disciplinary. I’m going to write you up performance evaluations, whatever that looks like. But like you said, if the expectations aren’t crystal clear, it’s difficult to hold people accountable. And it creates that rub because if the expectation is crystal clear and everyone understands this is the expectation for this process, then if someone falls outside of that, most of the time what I’ve seen is they own it. Yeah, I know what the expectation was. I messed up, that’s my fault. You know, whatever repercussions, you know, need to happen, I understand it. And so and that’s what I’ve seen when that, you know, accountability is, is held to that high standard of communicate first. You know, be very clear on what the expectations are. But and most of the time, like you said, that those expectations are not clear. But somehow we still try to hold our people accountable.
Seen It, Done It, Mastered It
Yeah. You know, on that note of accountability, I worked with a client company of last year that introduced me to a concept that I really love, and it was in respected overall job performance. You know, most big companies and even smaller ones now, you know, they they try to do good work writing a job description. You know, here’s the things you need to do in your role. And you know, that’s that’s a good starting place. But it’s not an end all be all. However, what this company introduced me to is the idea when they would have their performance discussions with people, they would look at the job description and they would use a simple rating scale. Talk about clarity. Seen it, done it. Mastered it. Those were kind of the three levels. And and the idea was, you know, you you move into a new role. You have to be exposed to everything that might be in scope for your job responsibilities. So you you need to see it.
You need to be introduced to it. Maybe go to the training, you know, learn the computer, whatever is applicable, and you get through that phase of it. But then you start doing it and and the done it part is, is about evaluating the ability to do the work on a consistent basis with consistent outcome, you know, maybe defect rate or error rate or whatever you want to call it. You know, you, you, you get a standard of performance there in the Dunnett category, and then the mastered it has to do with you now become the go to person for that thing. People learn to know that you’re you are the guy or gal to talk to about, you know, whatever that piece is and what what this client company said to me. And I worked with about a dozen of their leaders, and they all pretty much said the same thing when people came and said, I want to talk about possibility of promotion. They immediately went to, have you mastered what you’re doing yet.
You know.
Have you hit that level? And it’s kind of like that’s where the bar was set. If you haven’t mastered what you’ve already been given, why are you qualified to move up?
That’s an interesting concept. And in being part of training for so many years, the evaluation process is always the hardest thing to solidify because there’s so much subjectivity in it. And when you have to create very finite understanding of like, what are the expectations, what does it look like to, you know, meet expectations, exceed expectations? I like that concept of seeing it done it, mastered it. That’s so being the go to person for that. That’s that’s an interesting concept too. But but what’s your thought on this though. So just because someone has mastered one key aspect of their job going for promotion, because that doesn’t always equal being a good leader. You could be the go to person. You could be the best person at this function, but that doesn’t make you a good leader.
Very, very valid point.
And I And you? That’s a great call out. And at this company, specifically for those who were aspiring to be on the management track. It goes all the way back to the fundamental element of the job description was some notion of management responsibility, even as an individual contributor, at the very first rung on the ladder, there was this notion, and I think that’s how they articulated the master. That kind of, level is that, because you have helped to become a go to resource for this. When people come to you, how are you engaging in acting and reacting with them? And that becomes the indicator of the leadership potential.
Okay.
And it’s not just unique. It’s not just the technical exchange of the of the, you know, high. Hi. Content answer. You know, for something very technical or transactional.
Leadership Skills Are for Everyone
I like how you said that they they lumped in the managerial side into first line employees. Because. Because I’ve gotten into arguments with CEOs about, my thought was everyone in a company can use leadership training, and I’ve got an argument with a CEO before.
He’s like, no, that that’s too many cooks in the kitchen. You don’t need like your first line people having leadership training. I was like, well, what’s your idea of leadership training? Because leadership is really, you know, communication skills, listening skills. You know, those rapport building, trust building who could not benefit from those type of skill sets within the organization. And his argument was like, well, that’s law enforcement is different. Like, yeah, law enforcement needs leadership skills day one. But, you know, you work in some other company, you know. So I think that’s a very unique mindset to instill the leadership skills from day one. And that takes someone at the very top going. Leadership skills are important for everyone because I break it down to the level the leadership trainings I teach, the skill sets are the same for being a parent. Like that’s how fundamental these skills are in teaching someone to communicate, ask good questions, listen, suspend judgment, build rapport that trust.
All of those are fundamental in every relational aspect of what we do.
Yeah.
Oh, and it does come down to the whole idea of if if you’re going to be a person of influence and impact, which is many people’s fundamental definition of leadership, influence and impact, you have to make connection with the people around you if you’re relying on a team to get something done. Your so-called followers on the org chart, if you will. You have to be able to connect with them to build that bridge for communication to flow properly. And like we’ve said earlier, it’s not just about writing the memo or standing up and giving the instruction. It’s about knowing that it landed and knowing that the person you’re communicating with got it, and now has some clarity on what they need to do.
Yeah, leadership is about creating understanding in any communication that you lay out there, whether it’s that face to face communication that you’re sending the memo, sending an email, whatever that is, creating a level of understanding. And man, I think it’s such a great idea to to implement that on every aspect of a corporation and you don’t see that.
And I think a lot of people get this, this aspect wrong. And I’ll ask your opinion on it too, Doug. Being a leader doesn’t mean you’re a supervisor and doesn’t mean being a supervisor doesn’t mean that you’re a leader. What are your thoughts on that?
A Leader Is Not the Same as a Supervisor
Totally agree. And I, I, I do have a good number of clients who are not yet in an appointed management role. You know, they don’t have a supervisor title. They are a high potential still individual contributor. So the companies are investing in giving them some leadership training to see if they’re going to embrace it and continue to move ahead. And, it for those people that I’ve been able to work with, when you kind of open that lens and you say, hey, this thing we call leadership is a teachable toolkit that you can embrace and add to your technical expertise. you know, people get excited. They start going, oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. I thought, you know, being a leader was just having a manager title behind your name, and it’s like.
Nope, nope.
Quite the contrary.
Yeah, that that’s like one of the weakest, forms of rapport, right? You know that authority. rather than that, that reverent rapport that we’re able to build with people because of that connection and having those conversations? I that’s my favorite part about teaching these leadership courses is at the end of it, it’s like, oh, man, I can I can do this. And this applies in every aspect. This this applies with how I talk to my spouse. This applies with how I talk to my kids. You know, how do I talk with strangers that I’ve just met? Clients, my boss, my team, my direct reports? It’s like, wow, this applies to every conversation I have every day. And it’s like that huge lightbulb moment that goes off for them and they’re like, oh yeah, I wish I got this years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah. I can’t tell you how many times I’ll do work with clients and then, you know, in some later sessions they’ll come back and say, you know, by the way, I was at dinner with my wife and I was sharing some of the stuff we’ve been talking about, and I’ll get people telling me, they’ll say, there’s the spouse said, listen to your coach.
He’s got some good stuff.
You know, that’s that’s the best feedback.
That’s the absolute best feedback.
Yeah.
Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Justin
Well, Justin, I think we’re about up on time, my friend. Tell people the best way to get in touch with you if they’re interested in knowing more.
Yeah. Best way to get in touch with me on LinkedIn is where I’m at all the time. You can find me Justin W Atherton on LinkedIn. My website is also Justin W Atherton. Com and you know, the book’s easy to find. It’s on Amazon. How to get to the damn point? it’s. So I’m out there. You can find me pretty easily.
Great.
Well, as always, folks, we’re going to have those links in the show notes. So do feel free to check out Justin’s work. And I do like to remind you that we have a video version of this show over on YouTube channel by the same name. Leadership. Powered by common sense. Hop over there. Join the channel if you will.
Leave us some comments. Give us some feedback. give me some recommendations on topics or people you might like to hear from, but I think that’s it for today. So we’re going to wrap up. Say goodbye. Go out there and make it a great day.
Meet Our Guest
Justin Atherton is a professional keynote speaker on leadership communication and the author of How to Get to the Damn Point. After a 20-year law enforcement career—including serving as a SWAT officer and training lieutenant—Justin now works with executive teams and business leaders to improve clarity, accountability, and performance through disciplined communication and emotional regulation.
Links:
Website: https://justinwatherton.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/justinwatherton
Book: How to Get to the Damn Point: https://www.justinwatherton.com/thepoint
Connect with Doug Thorpe
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- Doug Thorpe Website: https://dougthorpe.com/
- Podcasts: https://podcasts.dougthorpe.com
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