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Introduction
Well, hey, everybody, Doug Thorpe here. This is another episode of The Leadership Powered by Common Sense. Hey, if you’re running a business, if you don’t have sales, you don’t have a company. You know, so I’ve got a gentleman here that’s going to help us understand some of that and find better ways to improve your sales volume. I haven’t met a client yet that’s not worried about some aspect of that. And I’m really looking forward to this. My guest is a gentleman named — Joel Bauer.
It’s my pleasure. I think we’d both agree right now that AI is here to stay and it’s not going anywhere. And it’s great in some ways, and it’s also dumbing people down in other ways.
And the one thing it’s not going to replace. CTO, CMO, CFO, founder trying to communicate to their stockholders or their principal participants in the company and trying to frame or create frameworks for them to work from in leadership, your expertise, change management, some of the things that you do so brilliantly, that humanity, that connection is not going to change. You can’t replace that. Even though very few people are going into the office these days, if you compare it pre-pandemic. And the truth is, it can’t replace it. And I just need people to realize that because people come to me from all over the world to speak, teach, and close, and they’re primarily corporate executives because my background was SaaS, Verco and Cargill and Apple and IBM and Toshiba and Mitsubishi and all these Fortune 50, Fortune 500 companies who you often find that the people in the leadership positions don’t know how to do that. They’re not very compelling when they speak and when they teach or communicate or frame an idea. And then the CTA, the call to action, they’re pretty weak.
And so I’ll give you whatever you want here. But that’s pretty much what I do. And I can do it for anyone. It doesn’t matter how shut down they are or whether they feel they have a voice or not.
Meet Joel Bauer
Well, let’s start if we may. And part of it is a little my own revealing and becoming transparent to the audience here. As a founder of a business, I often say, and maybe this is horrible thinking, but I often say I hate sales. And I know a lot of founders that say the same thing. They want to do their thing, whatever it may be. But to think about standing up, turning on, activating, mobilizing and being a part of something that is a quote unquote sales effort is off putting to them. And, you know, it’s a mental thing. I know. And, you know, if that’s your starting point with somebody, where do you take them from there?
Why “Sales” Is the Wrong Word
Well, I actually don’t use the word sales, even though without sales you have no need for management.
You have no need for a founder. You’re done. No sales, no revenue, no company. Right. We’re in agreement there. It’s 100%. So I’m not teaching them to sell. We’re teaching them to have a relationship with their clients. Because relationship closing is the only closing that actually really takes place. Years ago, I had lunch with one of the world’s top closers. I will not, without permission, mention his name. And he was known for closing techniques. And I said to him, you’ve got 32 books on closing. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of techniques. What’s your favorite? Oh, he said, I don’t use any of those. He said, all I do is have lunch with the client, have dinner with the client, get to know them, find out about their wife, their children, their interests, and maintain a relationship. And I find that everything else follows. I do not have to pin them down. So my whole mindset here is relationship with an audience, establishing rapport, building credibility, securing the attention of the audience, which, you know, TikTok and Instagram shorts and YouTube shorts and Facebook shorts are designed and engineered to whittle away at your attention span so that you’re almost nervous all the time.
Everything’s got to be fast, fast, fast, and that’s actually not effective if you want something to go in deep and you want it to have a profound impact. So framing an idea in a way that is so compelling and interactive and engaging — interactive, compelling, engaging — really makes a huge difference for the audience. And I’m dealing with people who were never taught to pitch. Or you don’t like that word, present? Or if you don’t like that word, frame their ideas. They don’t have a structure. They certainly don’t have an infrastructure for it. They don’t know the order or the sequence. And so they wonder why they’re ineffective with their stockholders, with the growth of the company. Again, whether it’s a mommy or daddy or solopreneur or serial entrepreneur, it doesn’t really make any difference. They’ve got to have that engagement. So I want you to know something. I never use the word sales. We don’t do that. We actually use the word application. You want people like they’re trying to get their kids into college — applying for your service, applying for your product, applying for the opportunity or the engagement with your company.
And that works the same thing. They want to get their kid into Harvard, Vassar, Yale, Stanford, whatever. And they’re praying they’re going to get them in. Right. And they pay a fortune to make that happen with no guarantee on the outcome, especially now. No guarantee, no guarantee the child will have respect or a job, even if they do get them in. And so that mindset — that’s the only mindset that we wish to manifest — that they want to be on board. They’re begging you and banging on your QR code or your opt in, or the opportunity online or offline to seize the opportunity to work with you, your company, your products, your services, your support, or combination thereof.
Capturing Attention in a Short-Attention-Span World
So I understand that and I appreciate that. Adversity to the s word. But, to your point, with social media and very, very short attention spans, what are you seeing as the way to garner the attention, to get them started on that journey of wanting to get excited and connected about possibly converting?
Yeah, I’ll give it to you.
And it really is a formula. It’s like a squared plus b squared equals c squared. It’s absolutely predictive. Most people think that viral — anyone that has a viral video like one of mine, “your business card is crap,” that’s what it’s called. Years ago it was a character that I developed and I was on this documentary, and suddenly we had 7 million hits. And that’s a lot of penetration. That’s a lot of reach that you didn’t pay for. So I’d like everyone out there to kind of make a note of the word viral, because viral can be manufactured, viral can be engineered, and it’s as simple as turning on your iPhone. I mean, the device I’m holding in my hand for the few that can see it. I don’t know if you air a video version of this, but this iPhone or this Android has the ability with no special microphone, no modifications of any kind of reaching millions of people. And we didn’t have that opportunity 20 or 30 years ago. If that wasn’t happening, you couldn’t broadcast.
It’s amazing. Some of the results we had, you know, one appearance that we did, one appearance and one call to one television show, generated over $7 million in business for our company. And I’m not saying that’s staggering, but we’re a relatively small company. You know, where we actually keep what we make versus giving it away or having a ton of employees. Our kids work with us, which I think is a fantastic thing. They always, you know, I’ve always heard it said that you can’t work with family. Yeah you can. My wife runs a company. Two of my three children, possibly three soon, manage everything. And this is a really exquisite thing. So two things — podcasting I consider to be the most effective form of social media next to viral. How do you produce the viral from the podcasting? Now, I don’t care if you have a huge audience or a tiny audience. If it’s an audience that respects you and you allow me to come onto a podcast.
That audience, because they trust you, already find you endearing. But essentially they’re going to listen. This is someone that Doug Thorpe actually believes in or he wouldn’t have on the podcast. He’s already vetted them. He’s got something to say. So the podcast injects that CTO, CFO, CMO, founder, individual, serial entrepreneur — that person — into an audience that’s already built. Sometimes the audience is huge, but you can have a huge audience of tire kickers that are not targeted, that are general. Your audience is pretty frigging specific — leadership skills, change management, all the things that you’re masterful at and that you’ve spent your life cultivating. That’s a very targeted audience. So I think everyone really should not look to having their own podcast. Yeah, that’s one way to do it. It’s worked for Joe Rogan and a lot of other people, Megan Kelly, a lot of people out there with podcasts that make a lot of money and do it. I would prefer being on someone’s podcast.
That’s why we do probably 4 to 6 of these every other week. And as a result of it, people kind of get to know you because they already trust the person. Number two, if you cut up the sections, you’re never going to be more effective than when you’re speaking to someone and they’re asking you a question you weren’t prepared for. I don’t want to know what the questions are, and I don’t want any editing or modifications — I want to extract from a real conversation with Doug Thorpe. Something that — oh, wait a minute, that’s going to make a difference for someone. It was a real conversation. And that extraction can turn viral and the viral positioning is here. You are revealing something that might have taken you 40 years to sort, sift and separate through, and you are framing it and gifting it to someone who, in 60 to 90 seconds, can have a very extraordinary takeaway that could impact immediate change. So viral positioning — and I could go into that for hours, but I don’t think we have that kind of time here.
And social media — it would be podcasting. Those two techniques allow someone to be understood, potentially appreciated and then they find out more about you. The worst thing for someone is to not have a place to go and not have a call to action. For example, a TEDx talk where you fall in love with the communicator on, let’s say, body language. She was amazing, he was extraordinary. And then you look him up and they got nothing. No website, no landing page, no materials. Nothing. They are a one trick pony, and you forget them within about an hour. It’s called primacy and recency. We don’t remember things for very long, unless we can take it deeper and find a way to apply it in our world. So if people aren’t prepared there with additional material, additional techniques and tools, they’re going to really fall short in social media. There has to be — and they have an ethical and moral obligation to create something of value. If they really care about their audience, that’s available.
And it doesn’t have to be available for money. It needs to bring someone into that relationship and open that door. Then you’ll get all the calls you need and all the inquiries.
The Value of Consistency — Doug Reflects
Yeah, yeah. You packed a number of things in there, and I obviously have been doing this a while, or coming up on show number 500 pretty soon and wow, I did commit. When I put this in my business plan. I did commit for consistency in the long haul, and if it does, there’s an element there. There’s value, I think in just that level of consistency. And I do get calls periodically that somebody will point to a specific episode and they’ll say, I’m calling you. Because when you said this on this show, I feel like you were reading my mind. I’m — you know, I’m that’s my problem. That’s my issue. That’s what I’m thinking. That’s what I need help on. So here’s the call. I — you know, what can we do together. And I again, there is no real sales pitch in this show other than.
Yes I do have show notes. There are links. There’s a reminder in the outro that what my website is and how to find me and that sort of thing. But the flip side of that I’ll mention is to your point. You said you don’t — if I understood you right, you don’t do a show, but you appear on shows. And so, I think that too, for an entrepreneur, founder, is a good strategy — is put yourself out there. There are a lot of networking platforms online for hosts that need guests, and they’re looking for people. And you can have an assistant browse those and book you and get you exposure and going there and you film the episode, record the episode, you’ve got sound bites to work with, and you can slice them up into shorter content and put it out there.
Guest Appearances vs. Running Your Own Podcast
Yeah. I mean, as I said, there’s two stances on that. I don’t want to have my own podcast and then go after podcasts.
It’s either one or the other. And there’s a — and that strategy really works very effectively. I would rather plug myself in ethically and morally into a podcast like yours. If possible, speak to you openly and candidly with no secondary agenda other than to potentially be heard and to make a difference for your audience so that maybe they’ll make a move. That took me 40 years through trial and error to finally master. And if that really helps them, sure, they might reach out. Our company already has our coaching groups. We already have all of our verticals built. We have our consultant — meaning we’ve been doing this a long freaking time. And we’re not looking for like the next gig. But by putting yourself out there consistently and not having that agenda where it’s all about, oh, what am I going to sell here? Or how am I going to close them here? How am I going to push them? No, I don’t have that agenda. My agenda is to find people like you that truly have expertise, that have been doing this for a long time, and the audience trusts you.
I mean five hundred. That’s a lot of shows. That’s a lot of people. And that’s also a fantastic experience for you, because you get to sort and sift through it and go, oh, wait a minute, that was good. And you might never have arrived at that from another book, because the extemporaneous nature of being in the moment and having a real conversation, and you never know where it’s going to go, so extraordinary things can happen. And the person you’re interviewing may arrive somewhere they’ve never been before, which is fantastic for them.
The Unexpected Gifts of Podcasting
Right. Well, and to your point there, and I know the way I look at my rationalization and justification for doing this show. You’re right. It’s not direct bottom line dollars, but it’s a lot of other value creation. One is the content we can share to the audience as it grows. But also I value the expansion of my own network. You know, as I meet my guests, we have our discussions.
And then I can honestly and earnestly say, if I do get a client calling me and say, I’ve got a particular problem in this area, I can immediately go to my guest list and say, oh, I’ve got a person here you need to talk to. It’s not my expertise, but I know a person that’ll do it for you. And you know, that is a value add for me as a founder entrepreneur.
Yeah. That’s happened. That’s happened quite a bit to my surprise initially. Like when you’re not trying to go after something and suddenly these remarkable opportunities surface. If you wanted to, I could give you — if I said to you right now, who’s your perfect avatar, who’s the perfect client for this podcast, who do you want to reach and reach more directly? I may be able to sculpt something for you right here in a matter of two minutes. That might surprise them in terms of the impact they would have. Who’s your — give me the — I mean I’ve done my research, but I’d love you to tell me who is the client right here.
You’re trying to reach most effectively. That tends to respond and benefit from this the most.
Who Is This Podcast Really For?
Well, interesting question here. And I’ll say it quickly — there are fundamentally two groups that I work with. And I know for a fact both are part of the audience here. One is the corporate manager exec that is moving up the chain. Not necessarily top of the house yet, but maybe aspiring to do that. The other is the entrepreneur owner founder that has already grown their business to — in my terminology, I say there’s four phases of a business. There’s start up, grow up, scale up and enterprise — and it’s the grow up, scale up, those two middle zones where the most need is for the founder to do some deep dive work on their mindset and attitude about what they need to do next for the good of the business.
Projecting Into the Solution: A Live Testimonial Framework
Okay. May I have permission in a couple of minutes at that open — I’ll tell you for those individuals. So I want you to imagine that you have a small stage.
And it’s not unusual for corporate executives to get together with personnel and stockholders. Right. And convene. There’s a meeting. It happens. And this is where you are judged. So let’s say I’m the CTO for a company, or let’s say I’m a CEO for the company. And I come out on the stage and I would say, please take a look behind the curtain or on the following stools. And behind me there are three individuals. There’s a female about 45 years old. There’s a male about 62. And then there’s a female. And she’s about 70. So interesting demographics, right? And chosen for a reason. I’d like you to hear from these three individuals because they’ve been impacted by our process, our products and our support. So he doesn’t do any talking at all. He asks them a question. And the questions are all premeditated. They’ve all been rehearsed. They haven’t been rehearsed as to what to say. They’ve just been rehearsed in terms of what are they going to say? And then maybe they went back and forth several times.
Because when people make up answers in the moment and they’re not professional communicators, they’re going to reframe it. If they have 4 or 5 iterations and it’s going to get cleaner and classier and more concise. So these people are prepared but not told what to say. The first person. Why our company? Why, over the last 12 years, did you choose our company? And they reveal something very poignant, very salient that’s going to really impact the audience. And they get to speak for about a minute or two, and now they go to the second person. Remember, start on a female, go to a male and on a female. Real important — women make buying decisions. Always have, probably always will. Very powerful buying decisions. I could go into that, but it’s a, you know, another discussion. Number two, you go to the male. How has our product and service made a difference in your family’s life and potentially your life in a significant manner. So each of them gives this live testimonial.
That’s experiential. Okay. Doesn’t sound like a sales pitch at all. It’s their experience. And then the third individual — when you contrast them. So the first one is framing why the company. Right. That’s important. Why, why us. And then how did the processes make a difference. And how do you know you’ll stay with us long term. Which is the final question for the final female. And she’s older and very mature with wisdom and generally has money, as people that have been here for a long time tend to invest at some point, and they’re concerned about their future. That’s a reality. Young people — takes them a while to kick in, get the partying out of them, or put it into perspective. Now, when you do that, the audience now is living vicariously through real people and real results. And now that CEO, CTO, CMO, founder, whoever, that presenter, that person is in a position of power or influence — or as you would say, leadership, right — is trying to steer the ship.
You don’t steer it through your lecture. You steer it through the actual experiences. And then that individual makes a poignant comment about why those three things are mission critical and how we can create a deeper and more profound experience. And this is what they’re not doing. Bring the people who make the actual investment decisions onto the stage, and then have your people live vicariously through actual results. So it’s not theory. It’s not something you constructed with ChatGPT. Okay. You know, someone else is languishing. That’s the problem. There’s the right way to use AI and a wrong way. If it makes you lazy and you can’t come up with the answers yourself, it’s no good. If it generates a diagram or an image or gets you to explore an idea with different dimensions, and then you go back to yourself, then you have something to offer. It’s when you allow it to replace yourself that you have a problem. I call this projecting into the solution. The audience only wants one thing. They want to leave empowered and inspired with specific direction that actually makes sense.
They can relate to. They can’t relate necessarily to the leader’s point of view, but they can relate to the customer’s experience. And so when you tie the two together, it shows that that person, that male or female, he, she, they, them — they actually care about the bottom line result and they’re being inclusive.
Practical Advice and Takeaways
I like it, I really do. And I’m actually playing back — I’m thinking about some situations where I have been in the room when a leader does something like that and it’s — you’re right. It’s very powerful to have it structured that way. So very well. Very good advice.
You know, they say — I don’t believe it, but they say the Confucian said, tell me and I will forget. Show me. And I may remember. Involve me experientially. And I will transcend, transform and break through. So to me, I train people when they come to — I mean, I didn’t plan on training anyone. These are the techniques I was using just to be an effective communicator.
Because I was hired as a spokesman for companies, some of the companies I mentioned, and you only had one shot, whether they were IPO-ing the company and they only have one shot or they were raising money. And you know so well — this is a part of your history and expertise. You don’t get two shots, you get one shot. And every word and every breath and every pause counts. And they know whether you’ve done the research. They know whether you care about their vision, and they’re certainly not going to cut a check or move forward unless that’s done properly. You are the greatest idea in the world. The framing is so important. So that technique of projecting people into the actual solution and having this experiential process is always — always, whether I’m doing a webinar or a workshop or a masterclass or a five day challenge, live, online, offline — it’s the same. How do I create something that’s experiential? That’s why we always ask questions. It’s never I have all the answers. No, it’s you’re asking them a question.
How would you feel? Imagine if you could, you know. And how would this make a difference? And then you give them time to process, unlike TikTok and Instagram — there’s no time to process anymore. And you and I both know that if you hear something really good in a soundbite, really good, it’s action packed in 60 seconds. We tend to have to replay it 30 times before we can even figure out what we loved. And that’s no good. So I’m not into that quick fix. And you also seem kind of hungry and unstable when you’re rushing. What’s wrong with the pause? You know, the number one question I get is how do I stop the humming and the R’s? And I tell people — I mean, I don’t know. Would you like me to address that? Because it really is the number one question for people that are going to speak.
How to Eliminate Filler Words and Speak with Confidence
Yes, absolutely. And that is one of the biggest challenges, I think, in modern — even hear it on the 6:00 news. People that are supposed to be professional communicators, they’re out there with the mic on the scene of the accident going, well, they, we, we just. Yeah. So please.
Yeah. Doug. And I’ll keep that short and tight. The most important thing is I have someone speak to members of their family and record it. So they’ll take their phone and they’ll turn on WhatsApp or whatever. Everything now does voice transcription, whether it’s Facebook Messenger. This is just not a challenge anymore. No special programs are required. Let’s just say WhatsApp. Say you’re communicating with someone. You’re having a conversation. They can see you, you can see them, and you happen to be recording. You’re transcribing. Okay. And you got some kind of recorder going. And that night, after you spoke for a minimum of ten minutes — ten minutes uninterrupted. That’s the key. You’re going to talk to someone you care about. You already have a relationship with for ten minutes.
You can talk to them about how you were raised, your relationship with your mother, your father, your sister, your brother, your aspirations and dreams for a better day in a better way. Whether you were bullied in school and whether or not you were an overachiever or underachiever — I think all of us could speak for ten minutes if we just wrote down, okay, I’m just going to talk about my history, which this person will listen to. So it’s not going to be a mystery for the next ten minutes. Then you listen to it before you go to bed. You’re going to hate it. And that’s good. You’re going to really dislike it. And what happens is self-correction. You’ll hear the ohms and the pauses and the ant and the R and the D, and you’re going to hear the filler words and the fluff and you automatically make the cut. Now, I’ve taught this to speech pathologists that were blown away by it. I’ve dealt with people that stuttered their entire life, and the one thing no one does for them is gets them to listen to the conversation.
Now, here’s the interesting thing. If you’re talking about something that you didn’t experience. You’re going to have those pauses. If it doesn’t come from truth and experience, it’s worthless. No one’s asking you to be creative. They don’t want you to tell a story everyone talks about. Tell your story. No. No one cares about your story. They care about your experience. A story is a fabrication. The very word story is a fabrication. So I don’t tell my story. It’s not a story. I just relate to my direct experience. And if I tell the truth, then there’s nothing for me to remember. I have the sense memory recall. So when we communicate with someone from our truth in our authenticity and with something that we can prove because it actually happened. Suddenly it becomes a very visceral and palpable and tangible conversation, and you find yourself not putting in the filler words. So when people lie and create a construct, that’s when they mess it up. It’s like they’re talking about something they really don’t know about — and myself included.
There’s so many things I don’t know about, and I don’t tend to be comfortable speaking about those things. In the words of Churchill. You’re supposed to present your finest hour. Like reside within the thing you know, with unconscious and conscious competence.
Closing Thoughts
I love it. I think that’s a good word to wrap up on here, Joel. Tell people the best way to get in touch with you.
I think based upon what I revealed here, if they go to JoelBauer.com, pretty simple — right at the top of the page. Nothing to buy. A man by the name of Peng Joon, a young man had failed with every other speaker that he had been trained by. And these were big names and they were great speakers. The problem is he couldn’t monetize. And if he can’t monetize, he can’t make a living. You’re going to do something else. So he reveals how he made $10 million and identifies the ten things I taught him. So I’m not doing any talking at all. There’s an interview.
You can download it. I believe that is the best place because they’ll get something and they’ll live vicariously through his process. Last year he did about 26 million. It changed his life. He went from zero to hero, financially and emotionally. And his name is Peng Joon. And the interview is right there. And I’ve been told by people it’s one of the most powerful things they’ve experienced, because they can actually apply and live vicariously through the moves that he made that I happen to guide him through. Good place. Love it.
Well, one last time, Joel. Again, thank you. And folks, we will have that link in the show notes as always. And yes, there is a video version of this show over on YouTube channel by the same name. Leadership Powered by Common Sense. Go over there and check out our archives. We’d love to hear from you and let us know if you’ve got another topic or guest recommendation you’d like to share with us. I do want to mention, I have a book coming out in May.
May 15th. It’s called Study the Leadership Framework. It’s a composite report out on eight years of study and interviewing over a thousand business leaders and the work we’ve done together to define a framework. The book captures the top 12 elements that people frequently define as their belief and aspiration for the leader they want to be. So that book will be available May 15th and in bookstores online everywhere. So check that out when you get the chance. But for now, we’re going to sign off. Say goodbye. Go out there. Make it a great day.
Meet Our Guest
From engaging and sustaining people’s disbelief as an entertainer on cruise ships at just 14 years old to selling from the largest trade show stages with record-setting closing rates, Joel Bauer has trained some of the world’s top income-producing speakers, presenters and online marketers to monetize their life experience, both online and offline.
For decades, Joel’s principles have set the bar for speaking, teaching and closing at the highest level. Using his unconventional systems and techniques, starters and pros alike are empowered to Discover, Design and Deliver their gifts through his proven processes. Notable graduates include Peng Joon, Myron Golden, Dan Lok, Mia Redrick, and Linda Clemons. Tradeshow clients included 3M, Mitsubishi, Shell, Canon, IBM, and Disney. Joel
has also been featured on every major television network and most major newspapers.
Today, Joel conducts his “Mentoring4Millions” events that range from beginner courses, open to anyone looking to increase their profits, to high-level intimate Masterminds geared at fast tracking a student’s success.
When not presenting and coaching, Joel enjoys spending time with his wife, Cheryl, his three adult children, Chanelle, Briana and Sterling and his grandson, Holden.
www.JoelBauer.com | IG: @JoelBauerMentor
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